[2022] NewSim Feedback

[subsequent]

Some data on plays per game taken from CFB Week 14 Evening and Night games:

 

Home	Away	Total plays	Penalties	Rushes	Passes	Sacks	Punts	Kickoffs	Extra Points
Louisana	Hawaii	160	5	52	74	1	17	8	5
Utah	BYU	182	6	91	55	1	17	9	4
New Mexico	New Mexico State	184	4	82	61	2	21	9	4
Oregon	Oregon State	155	2	54	67	3	14	9	5
Washington	Washington State	197	4	90	73	2	12	8	5
UCLA	USC	203	5	40	109	3	7	20	15
Arizona	Arizona State	165	8	51	85	3	10	6	4
San Diego	Marshall	147	4	75	46	0	13	7	4
Army	Navy	192	11	73	80	2	15	10	7
Florida	Florida State	157	4	71	55	2	10	10	8
Kentucky	Louisville	173	6	50	80	2	11	15	9
Texas A&M	Texas	187	10	69	77	2	13	8	3
TCU	Baylor	183	1	67	74	3	10	11	6
Oklahoma State	Oklahoma	186	7	68	75	5	17	10	7
Kansas	Missouri	186	7	68	75	5	17	10	7
Michigan	Ohio State	155	3	75	43	0	20	7	4
Stanford	Notre Dame	190	9	69	76	5	12	13	6
Central Michigan	Western Michigan	210	6	54	105	6	25	9	6
Georgia Tech	Georgia	199	7	59	89	7	13	14	10
	Average	179.5263	5.736842	66.21053	73.63158	2.842105	14.42105	10.15789	6.263158
	Median	184	6	68	75	2	13	9	6

 

In real life, the average last year was 70.7 plays per game with a high of 89.2 and a low of 59.1.

I think the problem we have right now is teams don't have enough urgency in 2 minute drill situations.

A few examples:

Week 14 Georgia vs Georgia Tech

Georgia got the ball back with 3:59 remaining and down by 6 pts. They ran 13 plays with the remaining time.

Week 14 Michigan vs Ohio State

Michigan got the ball back with 5:50 remaining and down by 7 pts. They ran 12 plays in 4:20 of game clock.

These numbers seem alright, but I think the problem is that run plays are bleeding too much time off the clock in 2 minute drill situations.

In Michigan's game, for example, the final drive consisted of 7 runs between 5:50 and 2:17:

Michigan Score	Ohio State Score	Quarter	Time Remaining	Time spent	Possession	Down	Distance	Line Of Scrimmage	Type of Play	Result
7	17	4	5:55	0:05	Ohio State	4	4	32 Michigan	Field Goal	K Jalen Woods's 50 yard field goal attempt is no good.
7	17	4	5:50	0:34	Michigan	1	10	32 Michigan	Run	QB Henry Brown carries for 5 yards. Tackled by SS Alex Charles.
7	17	4	5:16	0:18	Michigan	2	5	37 Michigan	Pass	QB Henry Brown incomplete. Intended for RB Cory Sanchez.
7	17	4	4:58	0:19	Michigan	3	5	37 Michigan	Run	QB Henry Brown carries for 10 yards. Tackled by DT Javy Axelrod.
7	17	4	4:39	0:36	Michigan	1	10	47 Michigan	Run	RB Cory Sanchez carries for 5 yards. Tackled by ILB Isaiah Hartenstein.
7	17	4	4:03	0:18	Michigan	2	5	48 Ohio State	Run	RB Cory Sanchez carries for 5 yards. Tackled by DT Javy Axelrod.
7	17	4	3:45	0:21	Michigan	1	10	43 Ohio State	Run	RB Cory Sanchez carries for 11 yards. Ran out of bounds.
7	17	4	3:24	0:30	Michigan	1	10	32 Ohio State	Run	RB Cory Sanchez carries for -1 yard. Ran out of bounds.
7	17	4	2:54	0:37	Michigan	2	11	33 Ohio State	Run	QB Henry Brown carries for 3 yards. Tackled by DE Yangervis Phegley.
7	17	4	2:17	0:22	Michigan	3	8	30 Ohio State	Pass	QB Henry Brown complete to QB DeShawn Rogers for 15 yards. Tackled by CB Tucker Odum.
7	17	4	1:55	0:06	Michigan	1	10	15 Ohio State	Pass	QB Henry Brown incomplete. Intended for WR B.J. Loup.
7	17	4	1:49	0:04	Michigan	2	10	15 Ohio State	Pass	QB Henry Brown incomplete. Intended for RB Seth Spaight.
7	17	4	1:45	0:17	Michigan	3	10	15 Ohio State	Pass	QB Henry Brown complete to WR B.J. Loup for 15 yards. TOUCHDOWN!
13	17	4	1:28	0:00	Michigan	N/A	N/A	3 Ohio State	Extra Point	K Brent Kohn's extra point attempt is good.
14	17	4	1:28	0:13	Michigan	N/A	N/A	35 Michigan	Kickoff	K Brent Kohn kicks for 67 yards. Fielded 2 yards. deep in the endzone by RB Wayne HughesRB Wayne Hughes returns the ball 30 yards. Tackled by TE Chris Simon.
14	17	4	1:15	0:09	Ohio State	1	10	28 Ohio State	Run	RB Brandon Crotta carries for 0 yards. Ran out of bounds.
14	17	4	1:06	0:35	Ohio State	2	10	28 Ohio State	Run	RB Brandon Crotta carries for 6 yards. Tackled by FS Trayce Mahle.
14	17	4	0:31	0:31	Ohio State	3	4	34 Ohio State	Run	RB Wayne Hughes carries for 1 yard. Tackled by SS Conor Ellington.

 

Number of rushes	Average time spent
7	0:27

 

I think the issue is twofold:

• Rushes are taking too long in situations that call for a 2 minute drill
• 2 minute drills aren't kicking in until 2 minutes remaining in the half

 

Saying that, I went back and looked at the last 4 minutes of the Army/Navy game last year, and despite Army being down by only a TD, they were taking like 35 seconds a play. So maybe I'm wrong.

[Jieret]

NE/LV Wk 15. Pats kick the ball off to start the second half - and the Raiders promptly kick right back to them.

[Bundy]

Bundy - KU/MIN/PHX — Today at 6:31 PM
I think players who run elite 40s should start with upper 90s speed, and speed should be something that can either barely increase, or only decrease over time

subsequent - MICH/Sea Lions/ATL — Today at 6:32 PM
good point on that. can you throw it into feedback thread so we have it written down somewhere

 

some examples:

RB Robert Thomas ran a 4.33 40 at the 2022 combine, and is 88 speed as a 1st year player

RB Aldrick Ynoa ran a 4.36 40 at the combine, and is 86 speed as a rookie

RB Pat Flexen ran a 4.32 40 at the 2023 combine, and is 86 speed as a rookie

WR Andrew Jones ran a 4.32 40 at the 2023 combine, and is 95 speed as a rookie

WR Richie Igwebuike ran a 4.32 40 at the 2023 combine, and is 91 speed as a rookie

 

I like that the combine #s might be off for blurring/"he had a bad start and is actually faster" etc, and yeah you can increase some speed over time, but Thomas ran a 4.33 40 as a rookie and only had 84 speed, and has already increased it to 88, and if he had gotten enough reps this year and wasn't just on my PS, I'd think it possible he could get up to 92ish speed. Which would be an increase of almost 10% of speed.

I think this could be worked into Injuries (perhaps major leg injuries cause some speed/agility loss, with multiple major leg injuries truly knocking it off) and "rookie ratings". It goes beyond speed, perhaps some rookie WRs/RBs/TEs/DBs come out with elite catching (Alex Williams III came in with 70 catching in 2022, and as sure-handed as he is, I'd expect similar prospects in the future to come out in the 80s/90s), truly strong OL/DL to come out with solid strength numbers (Rubby Stewart threw up 41 bench reps but is only at 80 strength), elite OL to have better blocking numbers from the start (Stewart as an A+ run blocking OT with 80 strength and 76 RB), etc. Alejandro Rua is an A+ prospect with A+ potential, so he should grow, but he came out with 63 strength (36 reps), 67 tackle, 67 run D, etc. Again, fine with the blurring, would allow for busts and hidden gems and whatnot still, but Rua is hardly better than quite a few pool players, which sucks since you'd like to see him as a generational prospect come out much higher overall. 

 

I think part of the fix might be stronger college progressions, especially if you get guys on the field earlier. Would help balance the recruiting trail a bit I think (guys wanting on the field earlier might not come to your school if you're starting a bunch of (SO), SO, (FR), etc, and would help prevent being crooted over/talent hoarding), which in turn would lead to earlier playtime for Draft prospects, who would develop faster, who would get to the pros "more pro ready", etc. Wouldn't have to be drastic, but right now I'd think that even mid round rookies should be equivalent to pool players since they actually saw the field in CFB lore. 

Could expand on this forever so I'll cut it there

 

 

[Bundy]

As part of "Out of Position" penalties, I think some consideration should be put into realistic use.

QBs - only QBs, that's fine

RBs - I think a few scrambling QBs are okay playing RB, not every one of them, but a few is fine. Denard Robinson love.

FBs - we don't have a h-back set in-sim, but I think using blocking TEs would be fine here, Perhaps allowing Power RBs to fit the role in schemes using 2RB a lot

WRs - WRs, vertical/receiving oriented TEs, receiving RBs

TEs - again with the H-back, maybe Receiving FBs could function as a TE2, but I also think consideration towards using a 3rd OT as a TE in power rushing schemes would make sense, as it seems we're seeing NFL teams do it every game. Would just sacrifice receiving entirely.

OTs - I think only OTs should be dominant at OT, but you could see serviceable guards with high agility make the position switch.

OGs - Again primarily OGs, but OTs should be able to function, as should strong centers

Cs - really only Cs, but maybe some OGs with high mental ability.

 

DEs - scheme dependant. In a 4-3, you should be able to use Blitz OLBs, practically all DEs, and maybe even DTs excluding NTs, if you're playing the run, perhaps sacrifcing some pass rush from DTs. In a 3-4, make it more reliant on Balanced and Run Stopping DEs, maybe a few DTs again exlcuding NTs, etc, but no OLBs.

DTs - In a 4-3, any DTs work, we see a lot of traditional NTs in 4-3 defenses. Maybe some balanced or run stopping DEs. In a 3-4, obviously you want to lean towards NTs, etc. 

OLBs - I think sacrificing some run stopping for pass coverage would make it fine to play a SS, or sacrifice coverage for run stopping with ILBs. Allowing pass rushing DEs to play OLB in a 3-4 would make sense, they wouldn't cover very well but could generate sacks and whatnot

ILBs - stick to LBs, perhaps buffing OLBs down unless they're smart

CBs - CBs, some FS, maybe some SS can play nickel/dime, etc

FS - could use some slower CBs/weaker SS?

SS - could use some slower/stronger FS?

 

K - kickers

P - punters

LS - give us the ELITE position, but don't allow Cs to do it very well. Maybe some athletic TEs can switch to LS?

 

Just some thoughts that would help keep things less cookie cutter, but would still force people to build their team to their liking, but reliant on archetypes. 

[smackemz]

17 hours ago, Bundy said:

As part of "Out of Position" penalties, I think some consideration should be put into realistic use.

QBs - only QBs, that's fine

RBs - I think a few scrambling QBs are okay playing RB, not every one of them, but a few is fine. Denard Robinson love.

FBs - we don't have a h-back set in-sim, but I think using blocking TEs would be fine here, Perhaps allowing Power RBs to fit the role in schemes using 2RB a lot

WRs - WRs, vertical/receiving oriented TEs, receiving RBs

TEs - again with the H-back, maybe Receiving FBs could function as a TE2, but I also think consideration towards using a 3rd OT as a TE in power rushing schemes would make sense, as it seems we're seeing NFL teams do it every game. Would just sacrifice receiving entirely.

OTs - I think only OTs should be dominant at OT, but you could see serviceable guards with high agility make the position switch.

OGs - Again primarily OGs, but OTs should be able to function, as should strong centers

Cs - really only Cs, but maybe some OGs with high mental ability.

 

DEs - scheme dependant. In a 4-3, you should be able to use Blitz OLBs, practically all DEs, and maybe even DTs excluding NTs, if you're playing the run, perhaps sacrifcing some pass rush from DTs. In a 3-4, make it more reliant on Balanced and Run Stopping DEs, maybe a few DTs again exlcuding NTs, etc, but no OLBs.

DTs - In a 4-3, any DTs work, we see a lot of traditional NTs in 4-3 defenses. Maybe some balanced or run stopping DEs. In a 3-4, obviously you want to lean towards NTs, etc. 

OLBs - I think sacrificing some run stopping for pass coverage would make it fine to play a SS, or sacrifice coverage for run stopping with ILBs. Allowing pass rushing DEs to play OLB in a 3-4 would make sense, they wouldn't cover very well but could generate sacks and whatnot

ILBs - stick to LBs, perhaps buffing OLBs down unless they're smart

CBs - CBs, some FS, maybe some SS can play nickel/dime, etc

FS - could use some slower CBs/weaker SS?

SS - could use some slower/stronger FS?

 

K - kickers

P - punters

LS - give us the ELITE position, but don't allow Cs to do it very well. Maybe some athletic TEs can switch to LS?

 

Just some thoughts that would help keep things less cookie cutter, but would still force people to build their team to their liking, but reliant on archetypes. 

I think coverage OLBs and Coverage ILBs should basically be interchangeable 

[subsequent]

We should look into getting a list of stadiums by altitude and give bonuses for kickers and punters for range at higher altitudes.

[Vivid]

This may be in the works already or mentioned here before but just wanted to put it out there.

 

Is there /will there be a way to remove redshirts in the middle of the season? I’m thinking situations that involve injury may force users to want to use a player that is on redshirt.

[smackemz]

So with the out of position stuff.  

If I have a receiving RB and play him at WR. Will he get the scheme fit bonus associated with a route running WR immediately, or does he have to wait until they "learn" the position? 

Will we be offered the opportunity to submit any players we played OOP last season to bypass the 1 year position learning time period? Or maybe the sim has snaps played by position or something. Or will everyone be starting fresh?

 

It probably gets difficult for players who graduated and are going to the NFL, but I would think the user base is small enough that accomodations can be made for college players who played OOP last season to get their new position tags for this upcoming season.  

[tsweezy]

If we could get previous years (for CFB at least) season game results output in .csv format (like test seasons have been) I could whip up some elo ratings and SOS for each year

[SandyToez]

Found a potential issue from my spring game vs UVA this week.

As seen below, UVA tackled my QB in the endzone for a safety, it seems. Then, UVA kicks the ball off to Temple, instead of Temple doing the required safety punt.

[BabaYaga]

My Quarterback ran the ball 36 times and my RB ran it 2 times. Here is my gameplan.

 

[subsequent]

 

Arizona State picked off my QB but was assessed an illegal contact penalty. Should be 5 yards and an automatic first down, Instead, it was called "10 yards" and the ball was given to AZST.

[tsweezy]

Washington Commanders RB JohnNetzel

1 att for -3 yds, 0TDs 0FUM

-3.00 yds/att.

Washington Commanders QBJerome Morrison

15 att for 45 yds, 0TDs 0FUM

3.00 yds/att.

 

Had the same issue as Purdue, our QB kept running the ball even though we shouldn’t have him run at all, and Tabbert didn’t get a single touch

 

 

 

[Spoof]

Issues in the Gameplan for me.

 

I had my FG limit set to 45 Yards - but we attempted a 67 yard attempt,a 64 Yard attempt and a 46 yard attempt. I then had a punt at 35 yards instead of kicking it.

I also have gripes with the kicking and punting again in general. Too many missed attempts at sub-40 yards. NFL and College Kickers can easily kick that distance, there shouldn't be as many no good attempts that we're seeing. 

I also had "Go for it" on 4th and Short set to 75% and 4th and long set to 25%, and we only went for it once all game. Would be good to know what yardage is considered "short" for that metric, as with Kicking vs Punting as it is, it makes me want to dial it up to 100% and avoid 35 yard touchback punts.

One thing I would say seems right is the Run vs Pass play call numbers. It seems more or less what I'd expected to have called with the plan I'd set.

Edited May 1 by Spoof

[kwheele]

Noticed on the statistics page for the simNFL and simCFB  tackles are not showing as recorded but TFK, sacks, etc are

Edited April 30 by kwheele

[Bingo415]

Week 1 NFL stats: New Orleans had TD returns from DT DePaula and CB Wheat off Interceptions. Neither TD showed up in the stat bundle.

[Rocketcan]

On 4/27/2024 at 3:57 PM, BabaYaga said:

My Quarterback ran the ball 36 times and my RB ran it 2 times. Here is my gameplan.

 

I cannot recreate this issue. I ran 20 test cases by hand and got expected results (Dade got every carry in all cases except when backups got put in). Tuscan pointed out that for some reason Dade only got 6 snaps that game (and he got the ball every single one). Why that happened I cannot tell you because I could not get it to happen again. I don't know if there was a bug with the stamina system and he got pulled when he shouldn't have, or if there was an unreported injury. Regardless, I think this was a fluke event.
 

What this *has* pointed out is that there is an edge case we need to account for. Right now, in the event that the only players on the field have zero weight, then the first player on the list will get the ball. Right now, that player is always the QB just by how the sim gets the list of eligible runners on the field for that play. I have now changed this so that the first player on the list is always the primary back for the play. Thus, if for some reason the only players on the field had zero weight, the primary RB for the play would get the ball, rather than a QB that might not be good at running (like a Pocket guy).

Also, I will add looking at the stamina and injury system next offseason to make sure we are pulling players and adding them back in as efficiently as possible.

On 4/28/2024 at 11:11 AM, tsweezy said:

 

Washington Commanders RB JohnNetzel

1 att for -3 yds, 0TDs 0FUM

-3.00 yds/att.

Washington Commanders QBJerome Morrison

15 att for 45 yds, 0TDs 0FUM

3.00 yds/att.

 

Had the same issue as Purdue, our QB kept running the ball even though we shouldn’t have him run at all, and Tabbert didn’t get a single touch

 

 

 

I believe @alexfall862pointed this out in the discord, but because you have Tabbert listed on the list twice, and the numbers are not the same in both places, the sim will chose the smaller number (in this case, zero). Please see point 8 in this comment: https://www.simfba.com/topic/6561-2024-springpreseason-games-newsim-feedback/?do=findComment&comment=23220

[tsweezy]

In our game against the Houston, as soon as the backups went in, we appeared to be playing a WR on defense (he recorded multiple tackles in the PBP). I think it goes without saying, but WR Covarrubias is not on our DC at any defensive position at all. What is also odd is that our CB4 and CB5 did not show up whatsoever. I'm not entirely sure how substitutions work but I would think we would default to Bradshaw and Burpee (CB4/5) before immediately jumping to WR (and our CB2 / 3 still showed up on defense after backups were in so double question marks)

 

also, the tackles didn't register in the box score which is weird

 

 

Play 99

Current Score: Washington Commanders 41 - Houston Texans 0

Possessions Remaining: 10:26, 3Q

Possession: Houston Texans

2nd Down and 9

Line of Scrimmage: 30 Houston Texans

Play Type

Run

Play Name

Outside Run Right

Point of Attack

Outside Right

Defensive Tendency

Pass Defense

Offensive Formation

I Formation

Defensive Formation

4-3 Heavy

Blitz Number

1

LB Coverage

Man

CB Coverage

Man

S Coverage

Zone

Resulting Yards

10

Result

FB Ryan Johnson runs around the line into the left side, barreling forward for 10 yards. Tackled by WR Hector Covarrubias.

Edited May 2 by tsweezy

[Rocketcan]

7 hours ago, tsweezy said:

In our game against the Houston, as soon as the backups went in, we appeared to be playing a WR on defense (he recorded multiple tackles in the PBP). I think it goes without saying, but WR Covarrubias is not on our DC at any defensive position at all. What is also odd is that our CB4 and CB5 did not show up whatsoever. I'm not entirely sure how substitutions work but I would think we would default to Bradshaw and Burpee (CB4/5) before immediately jumping to WR (and our CB2 / 3 still showed up on defense after backups were in so double question marks)

 

also, the tackles didn't register in the box score which is weird

 

 

Play 99

Current Score: Washington Commanders 41 - Houston Texans 0

Possessions Remaining: 10:26, 3Q

Possession: Houston Texans

2nd Down and 9

Line of Scrimmage: 30 Houston Texans

Play Type

Run

Play Name

Outside Run Right

Point of Attack

Outside Right

Defensive Tendency

Pass Defense

Offensive Formation

I Formation

Defensive Formation

4-3 Heavy

Blitz Number

1

LB Coverage

Man

CB Coverage

Man

S Coverage

Zone

Resulting Yards

10

Result

FB Ryan Johnson runs around the line into the left side, barreling forward for 10 yards. Tackled by WR Hector Covarrubias.

I think this has happened a few times, but considering that this happens only in blowouts where your team is winning, I wouldn't consider it game-breaking and will likely be something we look at at the top of the list in the offseason.

[DarthJarJar]

In my Week 2 game against Clemson, my ILB Daniel Hastert blocked a punt for a safety, but the points were given to Clemson and Clemson got the ball.

[mahrowkeen]

 

Markakis was hurt early against Temple and missed the rest of the game. It now says he can't play for 0 weeks. Shouldn't he be available to play hurt? Or not be hurt at all if "0 weeks"?

Edited May 4 by mahrowkeen

[smackemz]

1 hour ago, mahrowkeen said:

 

Markakis was hurt early against Temple and missed the rest of the game. It now says he can't play for 0 weeks. Shouldn't he be available to play hurt? Or not be hurt at all if "0 weeks"?

This will resolve when the week "advances" on the interface.  Basically he got hurt and couldn't return to the game, but won't miss additional time. 

[mahrowkeen]

3 hours ago, smackemz said:

This will resolve when the week "advances" on the interface.  Basically he got hurt and couldn't return to the game, but won't miss additional time. 

Bless you sir

[subsequent]

Tulane had a FG blocked on 4th down but kept the ball. They punted for a touchback from the Oregon 11 yard line afterwards.

[mahrowkeen]

 

Should I have been pushed back 10 yards? Happy to have not been, but this seems wrong? Lol